That part is the same (and the same as Mario,) but there’s more flexibility in setting, ambiance, and incidental characters, which is what I meant to highlight. It’s not that Zelda is a series known for its incredibly varied narratives, just that it works okay as a comparison point for another series which shares some key elements.

The Zelda games manage to get more mileage out of the ‘rescue the princess’ trope because they explicitly set up the idea of trinities as being incredibly important to the world they’ve created, and then plug The Hero, The Villain, and The Princess into that larger framework. It gives them a lot of wiggle room to change details while still remaining true to the general idea that Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf have a truly consequential and transcendent relationship to each other, and to the (tri!)forces that shaped their world.
It’s such a facepalm-obvious hook, but it works. Hell, we were taught during our litigation training seminars to make lists of three things as often as possible. Two’s not enough and four’s too many. Five is right out.

Personally I think the worst thing to ever happen to the Zelda franchise was the insistence of some rube in Japan that all the games could be organized into sensible timelines (the plural necessitated by time travel, which, ugh.) I’ve always felt that the Zelda franchise represented a weird sort of Japanese mirror-image to one of the broad conceits of Irish myth and folklore. Whereas in Irish folklore we’re presented with the idea of stories being played out over and over again (with variations for different time periods, settings, etc.,) by different individuals who took on (or had thrust upon them) larger, high-concept roles, in Japan you have the idea of specific characters, who generally possess some immutable core traits – some of which are physical – being plugged into different stories, each of which can explore a different collection of applicable themes while still remaining true to any core relationships that exist between them.

Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser never really had that type of mojo going on. Their deal is much more about innocent surreality and a childlike sense of play.

@Girard:disqus The irony of the history of the Mario games is that the reason we got the Super Mario Bros. 2 that we did was partially because Nintendo’s American office felt that the actual Super Mario Bros. 2 was too similar to its predecessor. Thus, the most famous ROM-hack in history was born.

I liked the original SMB2– it’;s probably my favorite in the series. They did clean up Doki-Doki Panic and make it prettier and more fun to play, but, yeah, it’s not an original Mario game. However, the characters, characteristics, enemies, etc. continued on in the franchise. 

While we’re on the topic of sequels of Zelda and SMB– I think it’s interesting to note that each of their sequels (in the US, anyway) are the ones that seem to stray furthest from the conventions that were eventually set as a pattern. I mean, at the end of each game you kill the Big Bad. It only makes sense that the enemy in the second one would be different. Yeah, you’re saving Zelda (who is not kidnapped, just comatose) in Adventures of Link but there isn’t a Gannon. 

Not too long ago I was watching a video review of (US) SMB2 and the idiot reviewer was bitching about Bowser not being in it (“Where’s Bowser??”). I mean, why would he be, logically? He was dumpped into lava at the end of the previous game. It makes more sense that he WOULD’T be back. I also like that the princess actually gets to be one of the heroes in the second game. That’s a nice change before they shoved her back into the distressed-damsel role. 

Yeah, SMB2 is pretty much the only Mario game that treats Peach as a regular character, instead of a trophy–and that was just happy accident. The one lousy game she does star in turns her into a complete basket-case.

 @RidleyFGJ:disqus  Oh, I definitely am. I guess I’m seeing it as the only “real” way that 2D Mario games can improve.

To explain: reading the comments, people are indeed bored with the same “ice, forest, fire, etc.” levels. I’m not too sure what could be next, though, in terms of the platformer. We already sent Mario into space, and the physical designs of the lever can be played with, but I’m honestly not sure what Nintendo can do at an aesthetic level to change it – outside of adding a story element.

The truth is that platformers, 2D or 3D, are dead, and this is from someone who LOVES them (and have a theory into resurrecting them). Outside of Mario Bros., which has managed to buck the trend with clever game design up until this point, the only upcoming AAA platformer is Sly Cooper 4 (outside of the indie stuff). There’s also a new Ratchet and Clank game on the way, but there’s a reason the tower defense element was marketed more than the platforming element.

I feel that, with the history behind SMB, adding a story element (with both comic and serious beats) might be the kick the series really need. It’s obvious that even the developers are copy-pasting coding from previous games, and giving them some kind of tale to draw inspiration from might kick them out the rut.

In addition, the gaming market is maturing, and at a basic level, it seems like gamers want the playing to mean something, and it’s hard to feel like it was worth it after the recent Mario games. Like, I started playing Galaxy, and I enjoyed it, up until I realized I’ll be getting 120 stars, then making Luigi get 120 stars, and the thought kinda depressed me. I DID this already in 64.

And even with NSMB Wii, I and my brother played it, beat it, and got all the large coins in all the levels, and then… left it there. I can’t even say I was satisfied.

Part of this is the nerd-fan-boy in me, definitely, but nothing will be that Seven Stars experience or that intro to Inside Story, that idea of Mushroom Kingdom having MORE to it, that SMB isn’t JUST about saying the Princess from Bowser (which in itself is a half-assed excuse to collect coins, attend stars, and find secrets).

In fact, you could say story elements are indeed what made SMB2, SMB3, and SMW so great. SMB2 is Mario sent to Sub-Con, to fight the tyrant Wart and save the people. SMB3 is Bower returning, with KIDS! Also, there are lands with their own KINGS! Honestly, there could be an On the Level write-up on World 5, the tower that leads you the actual sky world. How mind-blowing is that? You don’t just start in the sky… you have to GET there. And SMW is the crew vacation in Dinosaur Land and odd activity coming from Bowser’s wreck airship. And Forest of Illusion? That’s fucking genius (and also worthy of a On the Level writeup).

To be fair, 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy have those aspects as well. I fucking LOVE Galaxy’s storytelling with Rosalina’s tale. It’s hauntingly beautiful. 64 is almost like some Twilight Zone-esque tale placed in the castle. Sunshine’s issue was that the water gun was really gimmicky and the level design was pretty terrible (it’s nigh impossible to get all 120 stars without a guide).

And all of that is a roundabout way of getting to the main issue – we’re STILL doing 120 stars. We’re STILL saving the princess. We have a HUGE cast of characters but we have random blue and yellow toads…. and NOT Toad himself? Also, there’s no THERE there in these 2D platformers, no sense of place or time or purpose, main even more bland by the idea of collecting a million coins. Ugh.

Wow, that went long. TL;DR – giving SMB a unique story to build on inspires new ideas in game design and locales, inspires a decent 2D platformer that isn’t cookie-cutter.

@RidleyFGJ:disqus Hmm. Well, as I mentioned, Sunshine had more problems than its story trimmings – being a direct rehash of 64, a not so great gimmick with the FLUDD, the nigh-impossible method of finding all 120 stars, the poor level design, the “sameness” of the entire game (being placed on a tropical island) and so on.

The story itself was… well, I mean, it wasn’t awful – SPOILERS – it’s a fake shadow Mario that happens to be baby Bowser -  END SPOILERS which is kinda cool if simple, but it was poorly told through a not so great game. I wouldn’t say the story was the problem. The game itself was, and the story was shit icing on poopcake.

I certainly won’t say Nintendo are strong storytellers, but I wouldn’t go as far as to say they completely suck at them. SMB2 through SMW are cool stories, perfectly sparse enough and goofy enough to imply a grand adventure that occurs while going to save the Princess: saving transformed kings, freeing Sub-con, saving trapped Yoshis (originally Bowser trapped Yoshi’s in those eggs!), and so on. (And even Yoshi’s Island had a good, if problematic, story behind it) SMW even had goofy epilogues for each level with a write-up after Mario attempts to blow up a Koopaling’s castle. Where are my letters from the Princess between stages, a la SMB3? And I think Galaxy has a really great tale in Rosalina’s backstory.

All of this is a roundabout way of thinking about putting Mario and co. in a situation (in relation to the 2D adventures) where there’s more going on than just saving the Princess. Perhaps each level has a “problem” that’s obviously caused by a Koopaling, and you go through the stage to stop that problem on the way to the Princess. Like, if you’re on a water stage, and Lemmy blocks a river with a dam. So you go to various levels getting to the dam, then you have a level climbing the dam (akin to the tower level in World 5), then you have to beat Lemmy in his castle. Then you get a goofy cutscene of the damn breaking. THEN you do the next level.

It’s cheesy, of course, but it’s these small details that had always breathed life into the Mario universe. It made kids smile, and adults express interest in the various area they were in. Again, there are no Forest of Illusions any more. There’s no Star Roads or Special Areas. There’s no hidden rocks on the world maps that lead to flutes and special mushroom builds to get cool items. There’s no silly card games or hidden warps or REALLY clever ideas, like riding a Birdo egg across a HUGE batch of water to complete a level.

Maybe storytelling isn’t what I meant, but I do think the newer Mario games need to really think about adding world-building and imaginative ideas that go being egregious coin-collecting.